Hey folks,

I am delighted to share another interview with you today – I spoke to the wonderful Katie Dutcher who is a mindfulness and meditation teacher as well as a small business owner with really interesting stories and perspectives to share. Here is what we talked about:

  • Boundaries and self-worth in business
  • Mindfulness practices for more clarity
  • The many ways in which our businesses evolve over time
  • Dealing with stress as an entrepreneur
  • Transitioning out of employment and being intentional with finding new communities and support

Katie is a teacher of mindfulness and meditation. She founded Flourish & Bloom to coach individuals who are interested in being more present and living with intention. (Her work especially resonates with introverts, HSPs, and recovering people-pleasers.)

Katie is the author of two workbooks that combine teaching, audio meditations, and reflective writing prompts: “Transform Your Relationship to Anxiety” and “Courage Amidst Uncertainty.”

She is a founding teacher at Monterey Bay Meditation Studio in Pacific Grove, California, where she offers courses and retreats on self-compassion, anxiety, courage, strategies for introverts and Highly Sensitive People, and other topics pertaining to well-being. Katie believes that cultivating greater awareness in each moment is key to living a more satisfying life, and her teaching emphasizes authenticity, presence, vulnerability, and curiosity.

Katie’s website: www.katiedutcher.com

Monterey Bay Meditation Studio website: www.montereybaymeditation.com

Find Katie’s short teachings and meditations (a new one most every Wednesday morning) at https://bit.ly/YouTubeFlourish

Follow Katie on Instagram at httpss://www.instagram.com/weflourishandbloom/

Listen to the Embodied Business Podcast

on Apple Podcast // Spotify

 

⋒ Hi, my name is Yarrow.

My Embodied Business podcast explores what it means to build a livelihood with integrity, joy and anti capitalist values. I offer practical guidance on tech, strategy, ethical marketing, creativity and money and interview other small business owners who do things their own way.

You can learn more about my work, listen to other episodes or join my community at PinkWellStudio.com

You can also sign up for my newsletter - I offer free monthly Spark Sessions and share resources, ideas & new episodes about once per month over on Substack

Transcript

Hey everyone, Happy Monday, I’m really excited to bring you another episode for the DIY small business podcast today. I spoke with the wonderful Katy dancer about mindfulness and meditation and business, about boundaries and the day to day decisions that we have to make about evolving with our businesses and dealing with stress as an entrepreneur, and also about transitioning out of employment and being really intentional with the new structures and communities that we’re building as small business on Earth. We’re just no small thing. It’s really actually quite big and exciting and beautiful, and also full of challenges. So yeah, I really hope that you get something out of this conversation. And before we go there, just want to share a couple of announcements. So the first one is that I’m excited to say that I’m setting up another round of workshops this summer. And they will be more focused about long term content strategy and social media. So I’m always exciting to hear you know what questions people have, especially in the DIY Small Business School, I’m Renee, and something that’s coming up a lot at the moment, Holly, understandably, is this frustration around the rules of social media constantly changing, and there being a sense of overwhelm, and crowdedness sometimes, and so, I’m going to run a series of four workshops in which we’ll talk about thinking more about finding your voice long term, setting up structures for how you want to share and image spaces, and what boundaries are very important. And then also about the DIY media that you might want to create for yourself. So I think social media is really just one piece of the puzzle and how we’re communicating with audiences and communities. But really, it’s super important that we also create content that we fully own ourselves, such as podcasts, or liens, or books, or blogs. And so there’s lots of different ideas that I really want to share. And I think these are really important and as understanding these dynamics with social media, and really owning our journey a little bit more fully and becoming a little bit more independent from platforms like Instagram. So yeah, if you’re interested in that, please become an Patreon, I’ve decided to no longer offer all my workshops for free, and they’ll still be super low cost. And I’ve been running free workshops for almost a year and a half. Now, I think in total, it was almost 25 workshops, which was really, really great. But I also feel like I’m coming to a point where I need this work to be honoured in a way. And so I’m just asking people to pledge $3, or more on my Patreon, that will give you access to this workshop series and any other that are coming up, you can cancel your pledge any time. And if you want to become part of the DIY small business school community as well, then you can pledge $11 or more. And that gets you access to a really, really broad and beautiful, practical and intentional aid module business cause as well. So yeah, I hope that sounds exciting to you. And other than that, what else do you have to share? Oh, yeah, I’m also beginning to offer a new business mentoring programme. So I’ve been offering our Lee retainer based support for a while now, which I really love doing. And often that includes tech support, and support around branding and design and websites and how it all fits together, and software systems and all that stuff. But I’m increasingly noticing that I’m also mentoring people through the process of getting clear on what their dream business would look like, how it fits into their lives, what values underpin their work, what they actually want to offer, how they want to communicate that how they can find their people, all that kind of juicy stuff. So I’ve put together a three month business mentoring programme that includes nine sessions with me that are beautifully structured, it also includes access to the DIY Small Business School, it includes five hours of tag and branding support with me, as well as 10% of my web design packages. And that is relatively affordable. So it’s either a $1,750, or it’s three instalments over three months. So totally up to you. But yeah, check that out. If you’re interested, reach out to me, I’d love to hear from you. And I really think that could be a beautiful three month container to grow and get clear and finally nail down those things that you might have been struggling with for a while. So yeah, thank you so much for listening. Now on to today’s interview. Hi, everyone.
I’m super excited to talk to Katie today. This will be the third interview for my DIY small business podcast and as you know I’m really keen to speak to people that build businesses and definitely race and who have an interesting story to tell about what it’s been like to make all these decisions, you know, and think about bigger visions, and big and small strategies and all these really beautiful and complicated things. So yeah, Katie is a meditation and mindfulness teacher, and I’m really excited to talk to her about how these practices can be woven into our lives as small business owners and how they can help us have healthy boundaries and think about our self worth. And just make decisions from a place of clarity and calm, which I know sounds so beautiful, but it’s actually really hard to do in business. Sometimes. We can thank you so much for being here, I really am super excited to talk to you. And I would love it if you could tell us where you are in the world and what your business is all about.
Definitely, I’m super glad to be here to thank you so much, Yarrow. I am living in Monterey, California, which is the central coast of California. And traditionally, the native peoples of this area, were the Rumson, aloni and the SLN. And as far as my business, as I was thinking about this, there’s
it’s kind of businesses
so my personal business is flourish and bloom. And it’s really, always evolving, but some of the main things that I offer, and I love to do or to coach, individual clients, and and of course, because it’s individual, it can go in a lot of different areas. But some of the main threads are how do we how do we start practising mindfulness and meditation? How do we incorporate it into our daily life in a way that conserve the the person as an individual and, and of course, others as well. And more and more, it gets focused on some topics that I’m really interested in from firsthand experience. So things like how we work with anxiety, how we work with uncertainty and courage, how we access self compassion. And that’s, that can be for anyone. And then more specifically, I love talking to introverts and highly sensitive people, because I think there are some some interesting gifts and challenges there too. So the coaching is, is what I do at flourish and bloom. And I’ve also written a couple of workbooks that combine reading and reflective writing and guided meditations to explore some of these topics. And then, as a joint project, with my colleague, Maryanne row, I have Monterey Bay meditation studios, that’s a physical space
in Pacific Grove,
California. And we started about three years ago, and we offer kind of all all kinds of ways to dip a toe into meditation, like, like short drop in meditation sessions, and then longer things like courses and retreats. And just a chance to develop community. We also do a lot with nature meditation and, and taking our practices outside and really enjoying the natural space. And then finally, as part of both of these businesses, I ended up building our websites on Squarespace and I ended up really liking that. And so last year, I started offering that as a service to to to design Squarespace sites, mostly for other small business owners, like therapists or authors. And, and it is meant to be DIY. So that means that after it’s built, it’s it’s really easy to teach someone else how to maintain it, or how to edit it. So I enjoy kind of using my creativity with that as well.
Yeah, thank you for sharing, I really love and relate so much to what you said about, you know, things shifting and, and evolving over time. And I think that’s one of the really beautiful things about having one or more small businesses like is that we can experience all these different things and grow as people and be challenged in new ways and kind of being able to grow without necessarily reporting to someone who’s looking over your shoulder. I think it’s such a gift. And yeah, I love this the sound of the space that you’ve created. I wish I could come and visit that. And obviously, as a web designer, I can also totally relate to your love for websites. And I know many people have gone that route of like creating their own at first and then being like, Oh wow, this is actually a really beautiful outlet and it’s such a gift to give to someone. I think that you know, I know many people, many of my clients have kind of some hesitation or maybe Even anxiety around building that on site and doing that for someone as is such a beautiful thing, because it really means that the business gets lifted, everything suddenly feels very real. And there’s a visual language that communicates something that’s in their heart. And I think that’s really cool. So yeah,
I totally agree. And I think one of the things, I’m imagining that just because the, of what I know of you and kind of your personality, and and I hope that I’m like this to have that just helping, not just helping with the technology, but also kind of the emotional support through that, you know, because people get scared about messing things up or about learning something new. That seems complicated. So that piece too, of being able to not just take care of the technology, but really like support.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think writing an about page, for example, can bring up so much stuff. And I find that really relatable. And I really love guiding that process. I think it’s beautiful to see that unfolding. Mm hmm. Yeah, so So it sounds like everything that you do is kind of grounded in mindfulness and meditation. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you first came into that world? And maybe what tradition you trained in? Or what first kind of bag that pattern for you?
Yeah, definitely. So I first started learning about mindfulness in about 2009. And for me, I was going through kind of a low point, emotionally, I was living abroad. And certain things had just happened, like some big life changes, I had gotten married, which, which, of course, was awesome, but people came to visit, you know, for the wedding. And then they all left. And there were just a number of things that was like, kind of it had been sort of a high and then I felt like I was thinking low or, and so I just started searching for, like the most basic things like how how to be happy, like googling this and reading books. And one of the things that kept popping up that really sparked my interest was mindfulness and meditation, that that not that that happiness is like the key goal here. But that when you when you look at some of the the indicators of what people who, who feel satisfied and happy in their life are doing, a lot of them are meditating. So that had me really want to start learning about it and, and practising, and so I did that on my own. And then when I came to live here in California, as you can imagine, there’s like many, many more resources for learning about these things. And I took a class, the class is Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction, which is an eight week, pretty intensive programme, of real foundational introduction to mindfulness. It was developed by Jon Kabat Zinn. And kind of one of the first I think, late 70, it’s really one of the first kind of secular trainings that was developed in the US at least. And Originally, it was for use in medical settings. And then and it’s still I teach the course now I’ve done the teacher training for that course. And I teach it at the hospital in our area, but it is not just in the medical setting, it’s really open to the community. And so I, I really benefited from that course, it felt like it really brought the practices that I have been kind of dabbling in just kind of brought it home for me. And then from then I, I kept practising, and then a few years ago about, gosh, almost five years ago now I, I really needed to make a career shift that became clear to me. And what I was doing wasn’t really quite aligned with what felt important to me. And so then I started thinking about what will what is like, what is what does matter to me and, and my mindfulness practice was the most key core thing to me. So that’s when I started doing the the teacher training for that mindfulness based stress reduction. And then it it has taken off from there. So that’s kind of how I got into it. Definitely, from a personal, personal standpoint, that it’s something I really believe in because I felt it make a difference for me and continue to feel that.
Yeah, that makes total sense. And I really think that the most resilient, most creative and inspired businesses always come from a place of personal needs. Cuz like, I feel so strongly that I need what I’m teaching probably more than my students. Yeah. And that’s okay. Yeah. So I would love to talk a little bit more about kind of how you’re translating that passion into the work that you do with your clients. So when I’m imagining someone is approaching you, and they’re saying, like, Hey, I’m struggling with this area in my life, or maybe with all the different areas. How are you supporting people? What could that look like?
Yeah, I. So I do, I do think I mean, we’re just returning to what you just said about that, that it is, it’s grounded in a personal experience, I think that’s, that’s key to any of this because it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like it works, it doesn’t feel like it’s accessible. If, if there’s like a talking down, you know, or, or any sense of like, this is how it should be done or something like that, like, Yes, I see myself as a teacher and facilitator, but only, only to the extent of, of how I’ve experienced this and how I have respect for for what other people are experiencing so. So I always even think of this I there’s a class I teach again, and again, that I developed about working with anxiety, for example. And it always happens that sometime like in a week or two, before the course starts, I have some really massive experience of anxiety, like something brings up a lot of anxiety. And I, you know, I go through this little cycle of, it’s obviously it bothers me, no one likes working with anxiety. And then I have this remembering of, well,
good,
like, good that I have a very fresh experience of what this is like, because the moment that I stop having anxiety, the moment I won’t feel quite so authentic, teaching about it and talking about it so much. And so. So that’s part of it is just always being open to my experience. And with that open to the experience of the other person. What I love most is just, I feel lucky to be able to witness what happens with other people when they start to, to practice mindfulness to kind of find a new way of being, it’s like, it’s like watching someone waking up or watching. I don’t know, like watching flowers bloom, it’s because people tend to come to learn about mindfulness. Maybe for similar reasons why I came to it a feeling of of not feeling quite right or feeling like something’s missing, feeling overly stressed or kind of out of balance. And so to go from feeling like that, to begin to find new ways of operating in the world that that they never really experienced before. And to know that, that like that I didn’t do it. They I maybe showed a doorway, but they’re the one who who walked through it, and who who is practising and and, you know, making these these little moment to moment choices of being aware and present in their own life. So it’s just such an empowering thing to, to to see happen. And to kind of see that bloom. I don’t know if I answered your question. But
that’s what I find exciting about it, you totally did. And that absolutely makes sense. To me. I think it is such a beautiful way of providing tools and a mirror and a listening ear. But ultimately, also, you know, holding people in their own responsibility of meeting to make those changes. And it’s so much easier with support. I see that in myself. And I see that in my clients all the time, I think. Yeah, so I also have the same experience of of the thing that I’m attempting to teach coming up in my own life again, and sometimes that’s anxiety. And sometimes that’s other stuff at the moment definitely is anxiety because we’re waiting, or like we’re trying to solve this whole Brexit mess in the UK, and German so I don’t, I’m not currently really sure what my future here is gonna look like. And that’s been something that I’ve been living with in the last two years. And there’s such deep uncertainty because obviously, I’ve my whole life is here, my businesses here. I’ve lived here for 12 years. And I’m just not yet in a place where I can apply for citizenships. And I also don’t know if I ever will be. I beg though, I think had you asked me five years ago before I started my own business. Less and try began to really need these practices in my everyday life, I would have told you that that as a levels of anxiety that not even the biggest mindfulness can touch. And now I’m like, Oh, yeah, this really, really sucks. And I can acknowledge that there are moments of lag is so much relief and showing up for myself and my practices. And so yeah, I’m excited that you’re sharing these tools with other people, too. That’s great.
I mean, you you also bring up an interesting point, too, which I think is is worth saying, when you say that, that maybe there are certain levels of anxiety or or even or other difficult, emotional states that that mindfulness can’t touch? And I don’t know, you know, I probably wouldn’t say that it can’t touch. But I would say that. Yeah, there are there are. That mindfulness is definitely not a replacement for, like, psychological help, or for medical help. You know, I think that’s, that’s always important to say that, that it is a kind of a, it’s something that I think can help everyone. And yet, in the same way, sometimes sometimes something different or, or more specific is needed to.
Yeah, absolutely, I totally agree. And I, and I also think there’s no shame and wanting and needing either, both these things are different things at different times. And I often feel like there’s maybe this like, almost opposing energy between conventional school medicine approaches, and then complimentary therapies or modalities or tools, I really think that in times of struggle, we should just, you know, really throw everything at it. I totally agree. Anything that makes us Good, good. And hold on to that really tied?
I totally agree. I am that’s even what has me. You know, there’s just there’s such a variety of things have modalities that are available to us now. And I, I too, I just think if we let our doubt or kind of preconceived notions block off any of these paths, sometimes we can just really be missing out on on something that would be helpful.
Yeah, yeah. I want to shift gears a tiny bit. So I know, running a small business, like so many other things in life really can bring up a lot of stuff around boundaries and self worth and certainty, because we have to make all these day to day decisions, and I can easily become overwhelming. I speak to people all the time who are like, gosh, you know, like, I just don’t know where to start posting on Instagram? Or like, do I even start setting up a newsletter, and where’s my first claim gonna come from and as much as you know, in so many ways, I see this as such a beautiful initiation in itself. And like a way to grow as a person and really create a life that’s, that’s liberated, our closer to what we wanted to be. It’s also a lot, so I would love to hear it and kind of what tools you or tools or thoughts that you would like to share, specifically around boundaries and self worth and business.
Yeah, sure. I mean, I think one thing, that’s that’s important to say, and I’m definitely still feeling this out for myself, but just thinking about it, no matter how much someone liked, or didn’t like, whatever traditional job they might have had. I think it’s interesting to note how much support there tends to be in, in a traditional job situation, there’s probably a boss, there might be a team, there might be coworkers. And so even you know, whether you totally vibe with these people or not, there is there there are these levels of support. And so when when you move to having your own business, you get all this freedom. And then but then perhaps there’s a sense of security or support that. Like you have to kind of be intentional about finding or building. And so this is one of the reasons why I think what you do is so important as far as community and the webinars and their teachings that you do, because it is it’s it’s about them being intentional about finding, well, where can I find some support with this kind of moral support or how to do some of the things that I that I have to now learn how to do so that that’s one thing I think comes up for me about seeing if I can reach out for types of support. But as far as my tools, when I think about out the things that come up around self worth and certainty and boundaries, I have some practices. I mean, I, these are some of my core practices anyway, but they’re definitely what I turn to. So the first one is probably no surprise meditation. It is sitting in meditation, it I mean, it can be guided meditations for me a lot of times, it’s a silent meditation, it has me that helps me feel grounded. And it’s just like letting whatever comes up thoughts, emotions, fears, whatever it is just kind of come up and pass through and, and it’s this time of not distracting myself with something else. And so I might have a thought that comes through, or maybe it comes through a couple of times, and I never actually knew that that was an issue I was thinking about, or working with, until I sat down and, and just was quiet. So for grounding, and for kind of self awareness of what’s going on with me, I really, I really often turn to meditation. And then one of my other favourite tools is writing, I do a daily morning journaling, sometimes it’s really short, sometimes it’s a lot more extended. But through writing, that’s another way that I really tease out what I’m feeling. And maybe think about why what are the sources of what I’m feeling, I just kind of write my way through it. And that helps me, I it’s kind of a mystery what all writing does, and why it helps me more than just thinking about things. It keeps me on track, I think that’s one of the things is when I’m writing, I, I keep thinking about that topic, rather than drifting away in my thoughts. And it What I also love about this is that writing often helps me in that very moment, I kind of have some discoveries or, or just get to kind of write when I’m feeling kind of stated, acknowledge it, but then it also works as a reference tool, meaning that if you’re journaling regularly, and I even get kind of really nerdy about it, I my journal has page numbers. And I will, you know, kind of make an index as I go of like, this is where I talk about what I feel about my body, or this is where I talk about, you know, anxiety. And, and so it’s a reference book, it’s like, I’m creating, like a handbook of me, and I can return to it. You know, when I am coming back again, to that, like circling back to that topic, I can go back and read this. Oh, yeah, this is, this is what I thought about this a few months ago, or last year, and and it’s always, it’s always helpful for that reason to Yes, yes, absolutely. I
agree. And I love the numbering, that’s definitely something I should try. I’m rediscovering the artists right at the moment, which is about doing morning pages. And it really is such a powerful tool. I I think for me, it’s it feels a bit like a brain dump in the morning. And tracking, it really also forces me to address things that keep coming up. Because when I noticed that I’m just complaining about the same shit over and over again, we’d have a tunity to say, Okay, what can I do about this? You know, what resources are available to me to change this, when, without the journaling? It might really have taken me a lot longer to realise that that is something that is even bothering me. So, yeah, that’s really cool. Thank you. Yeah, I would love to, I mean, you have already touched about on this in many different ways, and how much meditation as a regular practice is serving you. But for someone who’s who’s maybe never done it before, what would you say to them? In terms of where to start? Or what to try?
Um,
so there’s a lot of,
there’s a lot of tools out there. Now. I would, I would say the one thing is just like not to get too overwhelmed with that, because there are a lot of different ways to meditate and, and all of that and, and so I would, I would start with, you know, if you may be on YouTube or, or elsewhere to possibly listen to some meditations. One of the apps I really like it’s a free one. They have a lot of free content. It’s called insight timer, and they have tonnes of guided meditations and you could just start and kind of start seeing what Teachers are gravitating towards the voice and the way of talking. So starting with guided meditation is a great place that many people like to start. Or in, in many places around the world. Now there are introductory mindfulness classes. So that’s also a great way to just get a, what feels like kind of solid teaching to feel like you kind of know what you’re doing. But I also just want to say that, that you don’t actually know I think the support is helpful. But if it if it at all gets in the way, if you feel like oh, I would, this sounds nice to just take some time and be quiet. And just do that, that’s fine. Like, you can just, you know, maybe set a timer on your phone for five minutes or 10 minutes and just sit there and breathe. And it doesn’t have to be something that’s super complicated. So just people tend to know about themselves, if there’s somebody that likes taking a class or, or kind of like trying to just do something on their own. And that’s what I would would put out there I have a free like meditation and Get Started Guide where I, I give more thoughts about that. But one of my biggest things to say about it is that we can just build it all up in our heads to where it seems like a really hard and intimidating thing to do, or that it needs a lot of tools or different things. And it it it couldn’t be more like simple and low
tech. Yes, I totally agree. And I also really, really love the insight timer app. I feel grateful for it every single day, and discovering new people. And I’m also friends with some people that meditate that I know. And we’re alive, which is awesome. I’m really honest, I’m also a little bit into the sticker situation,
I just wanted.
Because I’m going on a really long week now, and part of me obviously wants to let go of this need for outside approval. You know, I want to do this for myself. And I know it’s really good. Like, why do I care about the stickers so much. But it’s also something really in that I also feel okay about that. Just like, you know, I’m on a really long streak. I’m committed to myself, I’m not going to stop now.
Yeah, that was you. I,
I think that goes back almost to what we were talking about, about. In a way it goes back to what we were talking about about like, embracing a multitude of different things, and not really worrying about, you know, if it’s one or the other, like, why or like why not, you know, know that you’re intrinsically, you know, motivated and with your intentions and like, Yay, stickers. Like, it’s just all the more it’s all the more like motivations to keep going. And a lot of times we need, we need all of it, you know? Yeah,
totally, totally agree. Yes. And before we go, I would love to circle back to the topic of boundaries a little bit. But yeah, these practices that we talked about today is so helpful. And I think that being in business is also a constant invitation to think about our own boundaries, and you know, how we want to honour our time and energy and what we putting out there. And so what are you observing, and that area of how this can be helpful or how it can be challenging?
Yeah, I am glad we’re circling back to this I boundaries is an area that I’ve been working with for a little while, more, more intensively. And I think, for me, I see the opposite of boundaries to be a kind of like people pleasing. And, and there’s this, this draw for me, and I think for a lot of people toward pleasing other people. And, of course, that applies as a as a person running a business. I mean, you really do want to please people, and and that’s not a bad thing. And, and at the same time, there can also be like a wish to avoid conflict. So there’s, there’s all of this I know, for me that that has that I’ve begun to notice. But I’ve also begun to notice, like at what cost at what cost, do I really only focus on pleasing other people and and not myself will the cost often for me is a real feeling of of resentment sometimes where I’ve I’ve committed to doing something I really actually don’t feel called to do. And then and then I’m committed to it and I take it that seriously. And so you know, feelings of resentment, and then if somebody is, if I’m doing something in a, in this state of resentment or wishing I weren’t, I just don’t even think that I’m then bringing my best self or my best work to, to that, and I’m probably not even operating as, as in such a connected way as I could be with the other person that I’ve committed to so. So that, for me is is a lot of what sparks me to really be working on boundaries, because that that place of feeling resentful is just such a, it just doesn’t feel good at all to be there. And so, it starts with Well, for me, it starts with, you know, the writing or meditating and really starting with self of of like, what, what am I actually comfortable with? Or not comfortable with? What What do I actually value or not value. And then once I really no it like, like, in my bones, then it gets much easier to to share with somebody else to to start communicating it to other people. So starting at home, is one of the things that that is important for me. And then another thing that’s been really helpful to me is, like beginning to notice other people that are boundaried, or that have boundaries that I respect or admire, or maybe I’m amazed at, and, and seeing that. I think sometimes when you when you start to have a boundary, or maybe you say no to something, it feels real, it can feel really scary. Or maybe in that moment, you’re being pressured in some way. It seems like everybody’s doing that thing. But when you start to look at other people, and and seeing some of the things that they’re doing, it’s like maybe see them as role models, or maybe companions on this journey. It I mean, I’ll share one way of reframing something and this was just the other day I was listening, actually to one of your podcast episodes, I think it was about generosity and boundaries. And you said something like, one of your boundaries is that you don’t work late at night or on weekends. And I was thinking, Well, yeah, me neither. And then it had me think, Oh, yeah. And that’s like I I’m hearing Yarrow, say that as a boundary, not as like, Oh, I’m lazy. I don’t like to work on weekend. You know, so. So hearing you say that, again? Yes. It’s good to be intrinsically motivated and empowered to but but hearing you say that, it’s, it’s also, it helps me to hold it in that frame of, Oh, this is this is one way that we and me and people like me, and others can have boundaries, if that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes makes total sense. And I think it’s so good and powerful, like you said, to really named what boundaries are and not to always just come from a place of exhaustion, I think I can definitely see that in my 20s. I was sometimes drawing these lines, not as a proactive boundary to protect my energy in the first place. But just because I got completely depleted and then had to say, No, I’m not working weekends anymore. Yeah, I think it’s not a given. I think there’s definitely many people that think working weekends is okay. And obviously, sometimes it is okay. And if you can take other time off cool, you know, like, there’s no rules. We’re making them up as we go. Really? No, so individualised. Yeah, completely. And, and actually, sometimes I love hugging weekdays off, because then no one is in town, and I can do my by myself and, you know, have f appointments. And that’s great. Yeah, I would say it really depends. But I think it’s so beautiful and important to name at the core, what’s important to us and what’s gonna keep our businesses sustainable. We’re even regenerative. I think I use the word sustainable too much. And actually, I would love to go beyond that and say, I want my business to be regenerative that would be on
that’s where I get the word in my business flourish as you know, part of it flourish and bloom because it’s Yeah, it’s like, that’s what I love to feel like not just like I’m getting by or scraping by, but like actually flourishing and, and I think this is one of the one of the things that really helps. The other thing I wanted to add to that someone told me once it is always stuck with me, because we think of I think of boundaries A lot of times it’s like saying no. And it often is, but it’s really helpful to think of what am I saying? Yes to?
Yes.
And, and yes, yeah. Like, what’s the trade off? You know, if I’m, if I’m saying no to this thing, it’s because I want to say yes to something else. So really thinking about what are, what are the yeses? Because it isn’t just No, just for the purpose of saying no, you know? Yeah,
totally. Yes, I agree. It’s been so beautiful to talk to you. And I’m glad we said yes to it. Me, too. Yeah. So much. Welcome. Thank you. So what are you currently offering and where can people find you?
Oh, thank you. So two main sites might. The first one is it’s my name. It’s Katie Dutcher calm so it’s k t i e, d, u t, CH er. And so that’s where to find those workbooks I mentioned for working with anxiety or working with uncertainty. That’s where to, to hear more about coaching and what that’s like. That’s also where I think you can find somewhere there hidden about Squarespace web design. And I’m also if you want to look on YouTube, my youtube channel is flourish and bloom. And for about a year and a half now, I’ve been doing weekly. One starts as a lie, like Facebook, live teaching and meditation. And then I put it on YouTube afterwards. So it’s a whole library now, of meditations and teachings about a lot of the things we’ve talked about. So, so that’s my spot. And then of course, if you’re in the Monterey area, or if you’re travelling through and want to retreat or meditation community, www dot Monterey Bay meditation.com is our meditation studio site.
Cool, I thank you so much. We’re gonna put that in the show notes as well. So if anyone didn’t catch that, that’s totally cool. It’s going to be here. Thank you so so much for your time and everything that you said it was really beautiful to speak to you. Thank you. Thank you. I so appreciate it.

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