Hey everyone,

thanks for tuning into another episode! As you might know I am really interested in grief and death work and so was absolutely thrilled to speak to Lucy Taylor for this episode. It was really enriching to talk through some of our ideas and observations in the small online business and coaching world and I would love to hear what you think after listening! Here is some of what we talked about:

  • How we need to let old ways of doing things die
  • The showreel culture of instagram and how we might go beyond it
  • Allowing our whole selves to show up
  • Staying emotionally open and engaged in times of decay and death
  • Things we feel are missing from the coaching world

As a Death Awareness Coach, Lucy facilitates meaningful experiences for individuals and entrepreneurs to engage their relationship with death and loss as a path to wholeness and acceptance. Within her personal coaching, she supports people who are transitioning through a space of what ‘was’, towards what is yet to emerge. Through her business mentoring program Human On Purpose, Lucy guides coaches and purpose-driven entrepreneurs to prioritise truth and humanness as they create and communicate their business.

 

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⋒ Hi, my name is Yarrow.

My Embodied Business podcast explores what it means to build a livelihood with integrity, joy and anti capitalist values. I offer practical guidance on tech, strategy, ethical marketing, creativity and money and interview other small business owners who do things their own way.

You can learn more about my work, listen to other episodes or join my community at PinkWellStudio.com

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Transcript

Hey, everyone, you’re listening to the DIY business podcast and my name is Yarrow. I’m really glad to have you. And I’m excited to share this conversation read Lucy Taylor with you. She’s a death and wellness coach. And we talked about a lot of really cool things that I find so important and sometimes missing, like, how we could actually really let things die that are no longer working for us, or how we can go beyond assure real culture of Instagram, and find a way to really allow ourselves to show up fully, which is easier said than done. And we also talked about staying emotionally open and engaged in times, times of decay and death, as well as what we feel is missing from the coaching world. So I really love this conversation. I really love Lucy’s work. I’m excited to have remote 400 conversations about death. And I think some of you might want to check that project out too. And sounds really amazing. And I’m excited. As you know, I’ve been training as a grief celebrant this year. And I’ve been thinking about this work a lot more since this conversation and actually decided to train as a death doula to because I think this openness to confronting the end of things and letting things die and really understanding death as a very natural and very important part of our cycles, in business and in life. Yeah, it does feel so enriching and something that I really want to do and send them more. Just a few quick announcements for me, I have time this winter to do another website project, if you’re interested. I can also support you attack, or software choices or a marketing plan that feels good. So if you’re interested in that hit me up. Otherwise, the DLA business community is going really well. We had a workshop on pricing and boundaries and accessibility last week that I really loved. And we decided to have more of those. So if you want to join us for free trial, you can and recordings of that will be available to you immediately. Okay, thank you so much for listening, have a really beautiful day, everyone. I’m excited to speak to Lucy Taylor today. We got in touch with with with each other when I was still on Instagram. And we talked a little bit about death rituals and about how things are conventionally done in the culture, word and Instagram and how things could be different really. And so in a row, we’re just starting this conversation before I left. And then we email the bed. And and so I’m really excited to speak to you today. Because of the more I’m really excited to have more people on the show that are willing to share a bit more about your story with becoming entrepreneurs and questioning things and finding a path towards authenticity, and realness. And then I’m also really as a human interested in death and grief and how we work with these things. So yeah, when the opportunity arose, was that presented itself to interview Lucy? I was like, yeah, definitely is fog. Hi, Lucy, thank you so much for being here. I’m really excited to speak to you, Jeremy, too. Thank you and hearing you kind of just say what you said like, yeah, I’m like really feeling that too. Great. So let’s begin by hearing a little bit more about your work. I am not expecting you to give us like a post perfect, this is it? This is what I’m going to do for the rest of my life answer. That’s where you are right now. What feels most excited, exciting to you?
Sure. So where I’m at right now is I calling myself a death awareness coach. And what that really means to me is creating opportunities, and to facilitate people’s relationship with death and loss. Definitely, including, like literally the end of life, but also where that’s coming to me right now is the kind of deaths and goodbyes and shifts that we have throughout our life. And for me, that’s really a journey toward wholeness, and how I’m kind of defining my own version of wholeness right now in free. My work is like a state of accepting all that is. So for me where death and loss comes in is often we we bypass it, or we look ahead, and we don’t like you said like ritual, we don’t have ritual, we don’t often fully embrace and witness the loss. So for me, that inherently means that we’re not really creating and navigating life through this space of wholeness.
Yeah, that’s beautiful. That makes so much sense to me. I really. Yeah, I think something that you are saying on your Instagram page. Let me just go back to that really quickly because it really spoke to me and says life activation through death awareness, and I was like, Yes. Yeah, that was Yes, yeah, I am just finishing a book called swim I would feel, for example, and rich, beautiful storyteller processes that the grief and the death of her mom through while swimming, and I just passed so much reading this book and was thinking about how much death and grief, it really brings deep transformation that so many of us have often like, wanted for decades, but it needed death to really let them come through, which is really then making me wonder if if there was a way for us to be like you say more aware of death all the time to be more alive and more close and closer to how we actually really want to live. So I would love to hear a bit more about how you came to do this work and how you see it kind of play out in your day to day life.
Thank you. And hearing that what you just said about the book you’re reading and the thoughts you had from it, like, it’s quite a nice segue, because really, what brought me to this work is like a lack of almost feeling or a lack of feeling like I’m experiencing the world through deep connection and just like heightened sense of emotion. So for me, I’ll preempt saying a lot of people do get into death work or into this awareness through experience a really significant loss and end of life that personally wasn’t my experience. And it’s really come from kind of small step after small step, certainly starting going into personal development world, kind of trying to access that level of connection and, you know, kind of integrity and deep meaning, which I certainly did find to some degree, but it wasn’t until really kind of looking how that then interacted with the human experience we’re having right now. And the cultural systems were under that I realised there was something deeper and there was an access point that I still wasn’t reaching. And it kind of grew from there. Like, I kind of became aware of death as like a concept of like being aware of it through kind of looking at the way you’re the way I have certainly done and I think a lot certainly in kind of mainstream Western culture of like this kind of numbing out of kind of going to our jobs, being on the internet, being on social media, and kind of just not really engaging in, or certainly in the public realm in the the feelings, I guess that we would, we would kind of say are in a negative, so like grief, public grief. But also, as I kind of noticed that it was also like, extreme joy and happiness was also being numbed out as well. And that kind of it was like querying, why and like, why we’re not doing certain things and why we’re just behaving I guess, my search for meaning. It’s like, Well, why why am I searching for this? And it was really at the core like, because we’re gonna die one day, I want to have a meaningful life. But for me, like, yeah, the meaning to me with that experience of emotion. And it was something that I wasn’t allowing myself. So even early on in my research and my understanding of death awareness, I’ve come to see that the flip sides of the coin of like grief and joy are basically what the same experience but it’s like ice Personally, I see them as states of emotional intensity maybe. And when we come out of this kind of avoidance, bypassing numbing out, we can access grief, but we can also access joy. And that’s kind of what’s exciting me at the moment. And I hope I answered your question. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a topic that like, once you go into it just unravels in so many directions. So I’m trying to like hold all the pieces at the moment.
Yeah, me too. I think all of what you said really makes sense. And it’s super interesting. I’m currently and this feels so fitting for the time of the year as well with we’re recording this in late September. I’m beginning my grief celebrant training next week. Wow. So I’ve done the live part of it, which is all about celebrating birth and namings and commitment ceremonies and that and the next part is celebrating grief and building ritual about around that. And I don’t think that I like funeral work is something that I’m not particularly excited about right now. And I totally think it’s really, really beautiful. It’s just not something I feel drawn to. But I do really want to explore like you Deaf Awareness more and really make space in my life and my communities for grief. For example, for around the species that we’re losing every single day, just trying to Stay connected to this fact that every single day, so many beautiful creatures go extinct. And it’s just passing us by at the moment. And I feel sometimes with movements. What’s missing for me is this emotional connection and the sense of sustainability through staying emotionally open. But of course, that’s also really hard. So I’m not definitely sitting on my high horse, trying to be critical on on any movement in particular, but it’s just this feeling of like, how are we going to sustain really, really engaged resistance and embodied solidarity for the rest of our lives? And I think that’s going to take grief work as well. Right? Oh, 100%. And for me, like, wow, like,
I’m kind of defining what I feel is wholeness right now. And kind of what I said about a state of acceptance for all the IRS, they certainly the path I see towards that is through grief. And I think that’s, that has been the biggest wake up call for myself to realise, okay, so when we’re asking, like, how, and why are we not holding this emotion, or witnessing it already giving space to it,
or even just
really sitting with the truth of the dilemmas we’re in right now, socially, environmentally, and it kind of was that click of all we have to go through grief and grief is something that we don’t publicly collectively hold space for at the moment.
I would love to hear a little bit more about your story of becoming an entrepreneur and how you maybe first entered the world of self development, and then found your space within that and then decided, actually, this is something that I want to offer to the world. What was that, like?
It’s been a, it’s funny, it’s been kind of relatively short in terms of the last three or four years, but it feels like a very long, long journey. But like the, my first kind of significant step towards was through just like my own, realising my own numbness in my own life, and how I’d kind of done the tip, the typical thing, you know, I was in a job that I had, I enjoyed, it made sense, I was in a relationship that made sense. I was living in London, and I just wasn’t really happy, or it was more like this. That feeling of knowing that was a deeper level of feeling and connection, but also being surrounded by you know, the culture and environment I was in that was kind of pessimistic at its core, I guess, to sign a say, like, make you kind of not really believe that it’s possible. So constantly, like wanting it but not, but feeling like naive. to that kind of like, little piece of me that was like, No, there’s something there’s something more to feel here that kind of led me down personal development for myself, and quite quickly found coaching and as a profession, and I trained to be a life coach. And I had come from a background in online communications. So I was already kind of interested in this realm of discussing ideas and talking and sharing, sharing ideas, really. And I think that’s what led me to coaching have this this opportunity to really go deep and unpack certain conversations. And while I thought that was going to be like the end of my path, and then I was going to be a life coach. It was really coming face to face with the coaching industry as a whole and the personal development industry as a whole. Once I got out of the kind of initial shine Enos of it, I quite quickly didn’t really see myself in it. And I didn’t see the world around me in it. And it felt like this
bubble, which I do think
predominantly, it still is. And it was kind of then going okay, I
can’t
become a life coach, probably not on that conscious level. But there was this big resistance and I couldn’t really find my place in it. So I ended up merging my kind of life before this with online communications and worked with other entrepreneurs on their business. So that was, it was a passion thing, but it was also I always knew it was going to be a temporary transitional kind of business. And that happened quite organically. So I was working as a web designer and copywriter probably not too dissimilar to you with new coaches, mainly, and the kind of entrepreneurs in that kind of personal transformation. And
that is a business that
brought me closer to kind of the the backside of, you know, what’s going on for the coaches when they’re creating businesses and having these conversations around the coaching industry and what I felt was missing from it. And then I found the incredible work of Andrea Renee, who has a coaching as activism programme. And I went through that, and that was really that sudden kind of connection between like, oh, okay, so this is what’s happening between the disconnect between kind of social justice and the social systems we’re in right now and the coaching industry and how they come together, or personal development in general to kind of look at how the collective affects the individual and vice versa. And I think, Well, I know, that was the kind of final cementing of really stepping into my own values and understanding, which then kind of gave me the permission, I guess, or the validation to say, No, there’s something here. So the more I kind of worked with Andrea and her community, and looked into like holding space, and things that were complexity was allowed more. And really then kind of let this death awareness dropped into me. And for some, to some degree, I really do think it just dropped into me, I can’t really find the exact point it came to me. But it was like, once I became aware of it, I just, it felt so right, and I just couldn’t put it down. So that’s kind of where I’m at right now. And now I am just finishing up even now with my last clients for the kind of business support and copywriting on the like, literal sense. And now moving into more of the personal support that I’m offering for as a death awareness coach. So I’m just kind of in my own transition right now, actually.
Yeah, that’s beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing. I really also want to link to Andrea’s programme, because I think it’s incredible. It’s on my wish list of things to do next year, very high up. I will. And I’m excited that you really loved it. That sounds great. Yeah, like I said, what you’re saying really makes sense to me. And I had a similar experience. When I first kind of entered as world. I wasn’t necessarily intending to be a life coach. But it definitely five years ago, my first started this business that way when I help people in some way, and then kind of started looking around me. And I think what I’m trying to name is that I think, in a way, it’s human that we have falling into these patterns and these ways of relating and sharing our word because, at for me, at least, I was the first person in my family to start a business, I didn’t have any formal training. And to be honest, I didn’t feel connected and grounded enough in my own inner compass or connected to my intuition to day by day deal with all these micro decisions, and really kind of find my path from an authentic place. So through getting with this, I think is that I see these things dying as well. And I think it’s really important that we let go of them. And I also think that it takes courage when we’re starting out and, you know, trying to bring a new business into the world, it’s so tempting to just totally started, like you said in your email, that I really these templates of like, I have this problem. And then I created this tool, and this is my solution. And now I can tell you to do the same thing and your life will be you know, never, you will never struggle again, basically, because everything will be amazing. And so yes, I see that too. I know why it happens sometimes, but not really. I don’t know, individually, why it happens. But I see these these talents too. And I wonder like how we can bring depth to them, quite literally, I wonder what your thoughts are around this process and where like what can be empowering or positive or transformative in that sense.
And then the other kind of keywords like what is like inspirational and motivational and I think
there’s a disconnect, because I guess well, there’s a disconnect on so many levels, but at first it’s the
role of a coach is to even be inspirational, motivational. There is some element in there.
But I think there’s some feeding in there already. And this idea yeah, that kind of To do that, we have to
only show the positive things or Yeah, show the show the solutions and never really be in, in the processes out loud, consistently. And I think for me, like, I think about it a lot in terms of the how, because, you know, it’s, it’s too simple to say, and I’ll just be more vulnerable when we hear this a lot. So I’ll be more vulnerable, share your stories, but unless you really unpack what’s going on, it’s, it’s still going to be in congruent because you’re not really feeling like you have permission to do that. So I think certainly for entrepreneurs and coaches, what we’re talking about now, it’s like, that first step of I say acceptance of, of just witnessing what is. And I think, just that practice of really sitting with, okay, what is happening for me right now, before going into how can I sell it? How can I package it? Because I think that’s, you know, under capitalism as well, it’s just that quick rush to just throw ideas out and get them out and get them packaged and sold. And whether that be a literal pay service, or just like food sharing on Instagram, for example, that I just think that is probably where the dominant area of my work of entrepreneurs will really be. And it’s like, simply like witness what is and then say, Okay, how can we communicate what is and really let go of even the need to package it in an inspirational way? Because really, the question is, what is inspiration and you ask one person, the next person, it will be different. And like, for me, what I find deeply inspiring is people speaking, truth, like real truth about what’s going on for you as well, like coming off Instagram, like that I found inspiring, and it’s like, dependent on what we’re really craving. And I do think, again, you know, not every individual but collectively I think right now, probably the what we are craving is, is just humaneness to be celebrated and spoken on. Because, you know, yeah, the synthetic stuff just doesn’t really cut it anymore. It can’t sit for a while for certain kinds of people. But it’s unsustainable at its core. So that kind of Yeah, that’s one of my thinking is right now it’s really just sitting in to what is be before before going into action.
Yes, I kind of want to take a big highlighter marker out and just like go ever over everything that you just said, Wow, that feels really true to me, too. And I think I want to circle back to this thing of speed. And then another thing as well, I really fear that the internet has so much potential, but social media in particular, I feel like has been speeding up our processes, so much in our understanding of what is good enough and fast enough. And I’ve noticed this in myself all the time. This like being in a situation, seeing something beautiful or something inspiring, and immediately in my head going to like, what is this going to look like in a square image? And how is the lighting? Right, right? And what hashtag Am I going to use which is wired to me, you know, and it really took me out of the experience. And I thank you for saying what you said about me leaving social media, it was a really big step to me and it does feel scary still, sometimes I do worry about being forgotten. And I also want to say that I really would never judge anyone who loves being on Instagram because I do think it has, you know it has some really positive sides to it. I don’t think that it’s free, a free market tool tool because we are creating a tonne of free content and pouring so much energy and attention into it so that thinking of it as free I think it’s really kind of misleading. But I really met some incredible people on that, you know, we connected on that initially and many of my close friends I’ve I’ve initially met on Instagram and I feel so much more connected now with a community of entrepreneurs around the world that feel similar to how I feel and I’m I will always be grateful for that. But there’s this speed piece that was really bothering me. And then I think the other thing also of like, constantly trying to appease the algorithm that’s really challenging because what you said about permission really resonates for me I think in order to be truly sharing what is and what is coming up for us in a imperfect way that people hopefully may or may not be able to relate to. But it’s really kind of like thinking out loud. We have to, not just from ourselves, but also from your platform have permission to do so. And I just noticed over the years so often that when I was sharing something that was kind of a bummer, you know, that wasn’t really looking very good, or was it it was an image that had more darkness than light on it, quite literally. And we can talk about the racism in that as well. But I would always be punished. And I had six and a half 1000 followers, but just such a tiny fraction of these people would see posts, especially if they were not shiny, very light, super lead images in which I was sharing a bite sized piece of inspiration. And so yeah, let’s back to that. I would say,
Oh, absolutely. And that’s like, you really give me a lot to think about in terms of the kind of algorithm and the permit, like what you said about the permission from the platform, is something they haven’t really fully delved into myself, to understand what’s actually happening. But I do like, I mean, so much of what you said I was just Yeah. Just Yeah, like underlying as well, but like, social media isn’t bad, you know, and it’s, and for me, what are you really talking about is, is like responsibility for coaches, and for people who are using it as a as a business tool. I mean, anyone I would say, for me, personally, I’m kind of interested in people using it within the personal development sector, but it’s kind of like we, I noticed this thing sometimes. And we say, you know, like, Oh, we all know social media is like, the highlight reel is like the common phrase we hear. And there’s like, I was kind of networking event with people I’d never met before they were in the coaching world. And I kind of said, Oh, you know, I call I always remind my clients, that it’s just a highlight reel. And then I kind of like all of it. We were creating it, right? Like we were all creating that. So what if we just didn’t make it a highlight reel, and not an extra blame? Or even I have gone through this myself? Like, but it was like this kind of clear, like, what what do you mean, like, is with, like, that’s not even possible kind of thing. And I just think are with the people using it as business like it just, I guess is underpins actually, everything I had my first issues with mainstream coaching was the idea of kind of like, participating in it. So I’m going to just take this example, I’m going to create the highlight reel through my business, and then coach people on how to not be affected by that. And then like, how do we just not do that? Why don’t we just do step one. And, you know, so it’s kind of it’s really is just about responsibility. And I do definitely think the way people interact with businesses, or the way businesses show up is, is very different to how I would go on a personal account and like, like, my friends, pictures, you know, like, it is different. And I think there’s way more buy in, and I’m not gonna say impact, just like, I guess, seeding of ideas, because, because you’re there to teach, right? And like, I think that yeah, that’s where I get really uncomfortable. Mm hmm.
Yeah, that makes sense. And I’m still looking at your Instagram profile, by the way, because I just find it helpful at the beginning of an interview and something around a name as another practical example, as I have been finding it incredibly hard to take and share a picture of myself not smiling. And I think this is one of the honestly, that sounds so silly, like what is wrong with me that I can’t allow myself to not smile in the picture and then share that I have a friend who’s like, on principle, never smiling on the internet, is so inspired by her. And she’s, yeah, just talking about it a bit sometimes as a form of resistance. And it’s really interesting. And I saw that you also shed two pictures of yourself not smiling. And I just, I think it’s just such an example isn’t that incredibly hard. And it’s also something that’s like an accurate punished by Instagram. And I think you’re also totally right about this responsibility piece. I think that is, you know, if we are saying now, this is a tool and we’re trying to use it in the most intentional way that we can, then a really positive thing to do is, you know, to share pictures of yourself for example, not smiling, but also for for people to respond and kind of shape the way that their feed responds to their intentions and beliefs. So in Commenting on something, for example, that isn’t just a shiny piece of shit, basically, and saying, thank you so much like that feels true to me means that more people will see it. And you will also get to see more of those kinds of things. And no part of me is like, do I really want to spend so much time on kind of developing strategies around this? Or like, you know, finding these workarounds solutions, but it is also the reality of what it is to be an Instagram right now. So I think it’s important to name that yeah.
Yeah, for sure. And that’s like, that’s the integral bit isn’t it, where it’s like noticing things and then like bringing the systems in, and then it can like, spiral us back into like, the kind of recapture this way of like relating.
But what
kind of came up to me when you’re speaking, as well as just like about the pictures of not smiling at me, just to take a picture of myself was a real big deal anyway. So I’m going to come in and start my new Instagram for this work, and I really going to have to practice what I’m going to preach, right? So. And what really shifted and I think is something that isn’t quite clicking in for a lot of people, like that I’ve worked with and like entrepreneurs is that, you know, Instagram made, like, I might be wrong, but I believe it probably started or the way we perceived Instagram was like, documenting our day and documenting our life, which is where I think feeds into this inspirational thing of like, all I have to take pictures of, you know, my like, like, Instagram has to show my day like what I’m physically doing throughout my day when physically doing when I go on holiday x y Zed. And I kind of what really helped me to just think out of that to be like, Instagram is literally just a platform in which I share my message. And just realising so if I share a picture, I’m just gonna share pictures that are true to what I’m sharing, or that represent what I’m sharing, or, you know, if I take a selfie, I’m just gonna be taken out of what I’m actually doing, which is sound like couch thinking, she’s not spending a lot of my time. And really kind of getting out this idea that to have an authentic Instagram account, you have to be sharing, like, what you’re doing. And then there’s, like, in the sense of like, it has to be real time literal picture. Because then there’s that drive of like, oh, we’ll ever have to share a real time picture of something inspiring, that I’m doing in my day, I better get off my butt and go to a really crappy coffee shop and take picture of my latte. And, you know, and it kind of feeds that one, I just thought, I’m gonna just treat it like a magnet, like an editorial, like a magazine, or whatever, and just sharing pictures from what I was doing six months ago, because it’s a pretty picture where it goes with my message. And you know, simple as that. And if I share a picture of myself, it’s gonna be just yeah, how I’m feeling in that moment. And not performing. I guess that’s the word I’m thinking of.
Yeah, that’s, that’s true. I am also just so blown away by how quickly new cultures form and feel instantly feel so true, that it’s really hard to question them. So I’m thinking along the lines of like, you know, therapists, for example, and so before I say anything more, I really want to say that I think coaches and therapists and anyone in between and around those, those are all such beautiful, valid professions. And, and I think, you know, sometimes relations are cool, and sometimes they’re complicated gatekeeping structures. So, so I don’t think that actually am, I am educated enough in depth here to really make a judgement here on that. But I’m just trying to say, I sometimes wonder how we accept that we want to know so much private, intimate personal information from a coach, when that stuff that we would never expect from a therapist, like who wants to know, what kind of coffee their therapists had for breakfast? You know, that’s a professional boundary. And I just, I’m just kind of asking this question, I really don’t have an answer. And I actually think, in a way, it’s really beautiful that we realise our relationships, within businesses and within any kind of profession. So I think actually, this like being able to show that we are human to that has coffee in the morning, is really cool. But then there’s also this like, Flipside to that, that we’re now so used to consuming all of this kind of private information from people thinking that this is what we need in order to make a decision about whether we want to work with that person or not. And I just see that this, this culture around coaching has established itself so quickly that now people often come to me really thinking that this is the one universal truth like this is just what you have to do to make it as a coach. And I’m like, No way, this is really just been the blink of an eye that we’ve done it this way. And like, related professions have never done it that way. And they still kind of thrive. Like, isn’t that interesting? You know? So
it’s so interesting what you just said, I’m like, my mind’s like, blown, because I’m like, Yeah, like, and I do like be instinctual thing. I think, like, there’s a couple things going on that I kind of feel. And it’s like, one does the phrase life coach anyway, I think this is like, where like, language is like, so important. But I think the phrase life coach, and how it I guess, one thing is that, if you don’t really understand what coaching is, there’s the preconception that a life coach just knows how to do life. Right. And like,
it’s not much like, also blended with the real reality that life coaching is,
is obviously I believe in it was extremely valuable. But there’s also not, you know, so many regimented.
What’s the word like? It’s,
you can be satisfied and you cannot. So exactly kind of what you said, Sometimes these these regulations, that’s the word is extremely valuable. And sometimes, you know, it can’t be the gatekeeping thing, like he said, but, you know, I think life coaching is the landing with the kind of like, being an influencer, and being a kind of lifestyle, celebrity and this kind of thing. And in some ways, I feel like even though I’m actually I’m saying, I’m kind of like deciding what I feel about it, but it’s like, even though I feel like regulations can be used in a really controlling way. I do wonder if the kind of lack of regulation is maybe also just part of the nuance thing of, Okay, what is a life coach? I don’t have the answer to that at all. And I think like any profession, you’re going to have people that you feel fit with your integrity and people that don’t and I think this is the complexity and the nuance and the challenges. I think of life coaching as it stands right now. Because there’s so many incredible coaches who are talking on all these things, and more and where social justice is coming. And I find that so exciting and incredible, though, you know, we can’t deny there’s also a huge uprising wave of the kind of the lifestyle influencer, which I think is uncomfortably and untruthfully being blended with what coaching is, and I think that’s feeding into it, as well, if that need to feel like yeah, you have to take a picture of your coffee every day, you know, and all that kind of stuff. And it’s it’s really, I think, it’s I’m gonna say I think it’s tainting tainting the depth and integrity and amazing what coaches do to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I’m, I’m thinking about writing Xen about radical simplicity at the moment, because I got a little bit interesting, or like, I fell down a minimalism hole this summer. And I feel some some parts of minimalism I really resonate with and others I just find incredibly ignorant to the bigger picture of our consumption and how that’s related to white supremacy, and colonialism and capitalism, all these different things. And I also feel like it’s the same dynamic, sometimes there’s just these like, shares about, oh, you know, I just decluttered my whole house and threw everything out. And now I’m a better person, and it just is so much more complex than that. But that is also those kind of very simplified before and after stories are what really fly on Instagram. So anyway, I think hearing you talk about how does different things get muddled up how sometimes we conflate heart like the popularity of a person with their ability to support us and the way that we need to be supported. That is a that’s like an aspect I think of, of this work, where, to me, radical simplicity feels really helpful because at the end of the day, when you’re hiring a coach, what you’re really looking for is someone who can mirror your experience and really hold space for you and offer gentle accountability and inspiration, like real inspiration, you know, real things that you will take into your heart and your life and an act on that will make a difference to you. And that’s about kindness and the ability to nebulous and And maybe having some tools in place. It’s not about how many followers you have. And that I think is so important to remember. Yeah.
Oh, for sure. And that kind of to me just comes back to myself as well, like, what’s my responsibility? And yeah, and again, it’s like there’s nothing, there’s nothing damaging or harmful about like sharing a picture of your beautiful coffee or lunch, like, if that’s true for you in the moment. But, you know, when we’re looking, especially as business owners, when we’re looking at our feet as a whole, and seeing how much space that kind of content takes up, and how much space I guess what I’m saying like, if we look for our feed and look at each each image and what we’re actually portraying as a whole and say, like, what, what are the messages I’m sharing, like, for someone who’s engaging with me for the first time or not even for the first time, because we can have longtime followers who if we’re not really being congruent and in integrity with what we’re sharing, like still work readiness, necessarily, kind of the truth of our life, because it’s all dependent on what we share and that so?
Yeah, like, I think it’s all about balancing it with like, a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, totally. I wonder what congruence means to you at the moment? Or how do you sorry, let you speak in a second. I just wanted, I felt like it was such a weird, complex question. I think what I am, you can answer it any way you like. So take take it away. But Mmm, like, I wonder even if you have practices or things that you turn to, in order to stay in touch with this idea of congruence and like, what feels helpful to you, and that at the moment,
it’s like this is all coming from so again, Andre, his work really. And after coaching his activism, I went through a head of better training with her around fist liberatory facilitation, I find it hard to say that word. And we were learning relational skills. So I won’t go into the depth of it now. But it was kind of for listening and relate relation skills that make up unconditional positive regard. And part of that one of the skills actually congruence and it’s the act of kind of like, witnessing what’s happening in the moment. And kind of like, the, you know, the phrases like manifesting what’s what’s going on, and not in the like esoteric sense, but in like, the literal sense. So, for example, it can be anything as basic as like, so if I’m sat on my laptop, and I’m doing some work, and I’m thirsty, like, my congruence is like I first I want to drink. So that’s like, witnessing what’s going on and like the manifesting my will, would be to get up and go get a drink, but often I will sit, you know, being truthful, I’ll sit there for an hour and a half. Keep going as I just want to do that last bit last bit, and then I’m really thirsty. And I’m like, Okay, I’m not congruent, or going into a conversation at any point, and, you know, because part of its acting in your integrity as well. So it I guess I’ll preempt what I’m going to say. And I have been what’s really come true to me now is that really layering what I feel is congruence, next to kind of underpinning everything we’ve been talking about, which is kind of like mainstream spirituality around like, living through integrity, living through intuition, that increased sole purpose, that kind of level. And for me, that’s like very visionary. It’s the lighthouse. It’s the guiding the guiding vision, the ingredients for me, is that really being in your humaneness in the moment and enacting in the x, external world? What is what is true for me right now? Like, what is coming back to this wholeness piece? And that will shift and change in every every moment? And that’s like, That’s life, like congruence, I feel is grounded in life and say, like, intuition is grounded in the high vision. Does that make sense? Yes, it does.
And I think Yeah, yeah, it totally does. Yeah. Thank you. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we close?
I don’t think so. I mean, a million things. But as always, with these kind of conversations, but it’s been really nice talking to you. And really, because this the pieces of like, kind of what we’ve been saying now to me has been it’s been a big step towards concurrence, because I was, you know, web design copywriter online communications for entrepreneurs. And then I was putting on my death awareness hat because you know, I do really want to work with individuals going through liminal space And transition. And for me, I for so long saw them as two separate endeavours. And then when it really came on to my vision, which is wholeness, heals. And this theme of wholeness and really kind of being and creating from a space of what is I realised just how everything connects.
Yeah, so that’s,
yeah, that’s kind of like, it’s been really nice to kind of really ground myself in this conversation, because I’m super passionate about it. And yeah, seeing where all the things come together. Because, you know, that is that’s life and death. Isn’t that like, it’s, it’s all the things. So
it’s all things. Yeah. I can also talk for several more hours. And I would love to invite you and a few other people for second interviews later in the year. So I feel like the first ones that always like opening and there’s so much to cover, and then I wondered if maybe having second or even third interviews, one day would be would be great to kind of go back in time and see how things have changed. I know that in my business, things change so fast sometimes that I would love to talk to you again, if
you upgrade. Oh, absolutely. And I had like that moment of this like excitement, but also like pure like, Oh, I wonder, wonder why are we doing because like the last six months have been so pivotal for me. So it’s like I know, the next six months are going to probably be outside all my expectations. And the first time that feels really good instead of scary. So I would love to do that.
Great. Awesome. So what are you currently offering? And where can people find you if they want to stay in touch?
Yeah, so my website’s Lucy Mae taylor.com. And same for Instagram. And at the moment, I’ve got lots of stuff in the pipeline. But the core things I’m kind of doing right now a to a one to one coaching. So with individuals who are either in a transition or they’re after transition, and they’re kind of grappling with this, in between place of finding, wanting to really honour and look at what has come to pass in the process of, of moving forward into something new. And with entrepreneurs, I have the human on purpose, which is a mentoring programme for coaches and purpose driven businesses. And that is really looking at how to create and communicate from this congruence, what we were talking about,
through
their systems through their communications, but but mainly communications and really looking at what we’re sharing in our business and what we’re not sharing.
Oh, and of course, the big one,
I’m actually facilitating 100 conversations about death, grief and ritual. love to invite you to one
that yes, yes,
that will free that will free. And any anyone, anyone who resonates with literally anything we’ve spoken about here, but even just the words death loss ritual, if that instigates or activates anything, it’s for you. It’s really an open open project just to start to understand where people are at. But that really might influence why what I offer in the future, so that can that’s all accessible through my website.
Cool. I cannot wait to see that. Thank you so much. And thank you so much, also for everything that you said today. And yeah, just for being here. It was really beautiful to talk to you. And I’m so excited to share this conversation. So thank you so much.
Thank you and thanks for everything you do. You’ve really been an inspiration, I can use that word authentically slowing down and just really being human. I think that’s what it boils down to is just being human in business. And you’ve really been significant in my understanding and permission. You know, the permission piece again is always strong, I think. So thank you for showing up human in your own business.
Thank you. Thank you so much for saying that.

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