I know things are really hard and uncertain for many of us right now and I wanted to say that I am not podcasting because it’s business as usual, but because I am really committed to staying in dialogue and providing things that I hope are useful to you at this time. Today I am sending a really cool conversation with Kate Strathmann of Wanderwell Consulting your way – we talked about so many things that I believe are really important when it comes to building resilient businesses grounded in our politics and values. Here are some of the topics we touched on:
- Creating a solid financial foundation for small businesses
- Being okay with not being employable
- Being led by our values and meeting business partners with empathy
- Building resilient local networks
An expert in translating big, creative, passionate ideas into sustainable reality, Kate honed fierce negotiation skills over years living in India; learned the true meaning of the buzzword “sustainable” while organic farming in Minnesota; and has developed an intuitive, flexible approach to her work with over twenty years of yoga study practice. She now lends her breadth of experience to shepherding ideas from napkin sketches to robust balance sheets and emboldening owners to exceed their own expectations while challenging the status quo.
As the founder and director of Wanderwell, Kate leads a team in providing a unique combination of grounded financial practices and human-centered strategy and business design to a motley crew of visionary, creative small businesses.
Known for combining irreverence and humor with jedi-like listening skills, Kate lends these skills to organizational development, community-minded strategy, and thinking and writing on new economies, anti-capitalist business practices, and reminding us all to find more ease in our businesses.
This is also an invitation to join me for a free workshops on resilience in business and ways to take your offerings online at this time. I’ll share some useful tools and resources that might help you take your practice online and work with the uncertainty we’re in a little better and there will be plenty of time for connection and questions too. You can sign up here: httpss://pinkwellstudio.com/free-workshops/
Finally, the Embodied Business Community is opening 24 spots next week and you can get on the waitlist here: httpss://pinkwellstudio.com/diy-business-school/
Listen to the Embodied Business Podcast
on Apple Podcast // Spotify
⋒ Hi, my name is Yarrow.
My Embodied Business podcast explores what it means to build a livelihood with integrity, joy and anti capitalist values. I offer practical guidance on tech, strategy, ethical marketing, creativity and money and interview other small business owners who do things their own way.
You can learn more about my work, listen to other episodes or join my community at PinkWellStudio.com
You can also sign up for my newsletter - I offer free monthly Spark Sessions and share resources, ideas & new episodes about once per month over on Substack ⋒
Hey, everyone, this is Yarrow and you’re listening to the DIY small business podcast. I’m thinking about you extra Munch, and these really difficult and uncertain times. And if I’m really honest, I really don’t know what to say. I’m in grief and shock and deep uncertainty. And I’m also really committed to keep podcasting because I think it will be good to keep having good conversations and maintain a sense of being connected and being in dialogue and hearing about awesome stories and ideas and approaches. And so I’m really committed yet to send more podcast episodes out, I’ve been slowing down a bit and over the last two weeks, but I’m back and really excited. I’ve spoken to beautiful people. And today I’m sharing a conversation with Kate of wonderful consulting, which was really beautiful. I just listened back to it and uploaded it. And I was just full of gratitude. For being connected to Kate and knowing more about her work, we talked about creating a solid financial foundation for small businesses, about being okay with not being employable, which is really close to my heart. He also talked about really being led by our values and what that means in practice, and about meeting business partners and customers and kinds of empathy. And also about building resilient local networks. That’s something that I haven’t done so much of yet. But actually, we would like to do here in Scotland. So that’s on your mind and your heart, then I really hope you’ll enjoy this conversation. Also a quick announcement, I will be offering a free workshop, this coming Saturday at 6pm. UK time in which I will share tools and approaches for taking your business online and working with the uncertainty of the times ahead. And I think, yeah, I’m doing that because I know many of us are really anxious about how things will play out what it will mean that we are in a global pandemic. And, and also the reality is that many of us will be in lockdown, and some kind of self isolation or social distancing. For a while to come. And I would like to create some space for us to talk about what that means for businesses and what we can do to connect with people online and possibly work from home and make that as smooth and sustainable as possible. So I’ll share both technical tools and explain how they work. And I will also answer questions and just share some resources that I find really useful. And there’ll be plenty of time just to connect and ask questions as well. So I would love to see you that I’ll link to that in the show notes as well. And for now just thank you so much for listening. Let me know what do you want to hear more about sending so much love your way? Hello, everyone. I am really excited to bring you another interview conversation. As you know, I’ve been just super lucky this year with the kinds of people that have said yes to being interviewed. So today is no different. I’m speaking for to Cape strap men, I hope I got this a wonderful consulting about your values and business what it means to build one really interesting work that she’s doing and local economies. And I’m just super, super excited to get to dive a little bit deeper. Okay, thank you so much for making time and being here. My pleasure. excited to talk to them. Yeah, me too. Um, so I want to start by asking what where do you live and what nature is like around here, I always like to be able to imagine kind of how this conversation is coming to be.
So I live in Philadelphia, on the East Coast of the United States. And today I’m chatting with you from my office, which is smack dab in the centre of the city. So we don’t have a lot of I have, I have a nice wall of office plants in the window. But otherwise, our offices more or less equidistant from the two rivers that run through Philadelphia and kind of frame out centre city. But I can see a couple of historic brick walls out my window and some sunshine and I couldn’t tell you where the nearest tree is. So there’s not a lot of nature, but there’s a lot of urban ness. Yeah,
I’ve got great art around here that I can see and listeners can but yeah. Thank you cool. Well, I would also love to know a little bit more about yourself and your business and how that came to be. Tell us anything you’d like to share.
Sure. So I am an art Just first probably, and multidisciplinary business owner, queer women, rabble rouser on occasion, and I think my, my path to business has been, like many of us completely winded and non traditional and all over the place. So, and I think particularly as someone that works with financials, frequently and as a foundational element of our work and my business wanderwell. So, you know, my degree is an art. And I think that’s really the core of my being. And how I approached my business, primarily. However, you know, and the origin story is, is somewhat accidental, I met my former business partner in a coffee shop in South Philadelphia, we co worked there frequently, at the time, about seven years ago, maybe now. And started working on projects together with local businesses in Philadelphia, and they have a MBA hard finance background. And so it was really kind of a marriage of our skill sets and built from there. And so, you know, where we are today is sort of a continuous evolution of that beginning work of really working on business planning and strategy with folks. And I think, you know, have expanded over the years and myself now, as the sole director of the business, you know, I think we’re really, it’s, it’s really grounded in a kind of multidisciplinary vision of what a business can be, and what it can do, and what kind of music and engage with and how we can affect change. through that. I didn’t really say anything about what we do yet. But
you have great ideas.
But those ideas come through. So you know, we’re primarily a consulting company, which is the driest way of putting it and work on strategy, finance, and all the foundational elements of business, as well as providing bookkeeping services for small businesses. So we have a really solid financial foundation to what we do to then be able to ask people questions about their dreams and hopes and wild fantasies and be able to really ground it in some reality, data.
Cool. That is so needed. I feel like there’s a lot of elements all around us when we are in the beginning. And we’re like, oh, I have this idea. And it’s so dreamy, and beautiful. And then there’s kind of the first wave of imposter syndrome to work through. And, and grounding often gets left out in that phase, I think. So yeah, I’m really excited that you’re doing this work. And I can imagine that it’s super valuable and supportive for lots of greens that have come to be, yeah, I don’t teach it anywhere. Right.
The other thing that’s been my biggest realisation is like, you can go get an MBA, but they don’t, most programmes actually don’t teach you how to run a small business. It’s not, you know, you can learn Excel really well. But in terms of like, actually understanding how business finance works, and stuff like that, they’re not amount of spaces. To find my knowledge.
Yeah, that’s so true. I would love to know what make you start a business in the first place. Did you ever intentionally walk away from an ads practice? Or? Or did it just kind of fall into your lap? How did it happen?
I think it you know, it kind of fell into my lap. I I had, um, I i’ve
been always pretty clear that I did not want to make my living primarily from art. That felt stressful. It’s very hard to do. And so even in school, like that was something I always felt very clear on. I had one full time job in my early 20s. And I left that and moved to India. And I was in and out of India for a couple of years. So you know, I think a lot of it came from being really clear that I like to joke that I’m not super employable. Like I definitely am better in an owner seat or a visionary seat or a leadership seat. I have a hard time not like interjecting my opinions. I think a lot of us do. That might be the Aries rising but So I think a lot of it came from like, especially in my 20s, I was piecing together work, and I did some web development, and I did some marketing stuff and, you know, was all over the place. And so this body of work and like current business, I think came about by accident, really, you know, kind of falling into projects that I just got really super into, like the strategy and the systems that underpin what we’re trying to do in our businesses, especially small creative spaces. And it kind of grew from there.
Yeah, that makes total sense. And so interesting that you’ve done web development work as well, I think that’s always a unique way of looking behind the scenes of businesses. I think that I’m learning a lot about strategy and visions by kind of like, having that site weigh you into something. Yeah. So it’s kind
of like a home or container. Yeah, it actually holds more than it appears.
Yeah. I would love to live and to know a little bit more about your business values and how they’re related to the political ideas that you hold here.
Yeah. So I think, you know, one of one of our values is inquisitiveness. And, you know, I, that relates to, I think a bit about what I was saying, as being an artist first, in that, one of the ways I think about artists and the role of artists is that, you know, we ask deep questions, that that maybe do not have answers. And maybe that’s a good thing. And so I think there’s a piece of it that’s related to that. And then I think the sort of political part of it and what’s grounded in, I would say, the like, engagement with a critique of the system that we’re in, like, we are living under capitalism, generally in the Western world, and and at the same time, you know, I think the inquisitiveness value, for me, is a way of saying that we’re going to test assumptions. And we’re going to ask the questions of like, why do we think this way? Or why, why do we assume you know, that this is the right way that we’re supposed to be engaging in the system? Or these are the kinds of beliefs that come up? You know, what are the ones we’ve lived sort of like common phrases gets thrown out there a lot, especially if the good, like, online business world is charged what you’re worth? And that’s one that’s like, feels so loaded to me? Because it’s like, well, if you’re not part of dominant culture, like if you don’t hold up, you know, place a positional privilege, that can be so fraught with mixed messages. Like, as women as people of colour, you know, we’re being paid less on the dollar than white men like that’s, there’s hard data about that. So it’s like worth, you know, there’s mixed messages, I think about worth, those kind of pricing, how do we position ourselves in the marketplace, like, those can actually be really hugely politically fraught topics of choices to engage with. And so I, you know, I think at the root, this value of inquisitiveness is really just about asking questions and knowing that we’re not going to be impeccable in our integrity about it, because it’s not possible. Like, we will replicate harm, even as we you know, like, I know that I do that to replicating harm and the system that I’m trying to unpack, or critique, but at least, to challenge the assumptions and questions. That’s kind of the biggest one. And then I think the second value that’s really important is empathy. And just really being attuned to where people are coming from. And knowing that business is really hard. Running a business is just inherently super challenging. I think it’s all the more so when you’re, you know, trying to do that in a values led way. And in a way that takes care of community of yourself, of all those things. And so I think a lot of it is like, and this, I think, is also inherently political of like, just being really rapid, you know, having a recognition of everybody’s full humanity. The challenges we’re all up against trying to pay the rent at all. You know, basically.
Yeah, totally. That’s so important. I think you’re right, those are really beautiful values. He also talked a little bit about hyper local economies. And I would love to hear more about what they mean to you. Or maybe we can just start by kind of untangling a little bit. What exactly you mean, I can imagine that not everyone has a super clear idea about this.
Yeah, I feel like you have a lot to say about this to that. Yeah, I think. So I think about local economies, particularly in the context of wanderwell, in that, you know, we have clients and we work with folks all over the United States. However, we are deeply grounded in the Philadelphia community and economy, and most of our clients are here. And that was really intentional from the beginning, like we, you know, most of my team is remote. We sort of work as an online business, but I do not consider us an online business. Like I consider us a community driven business that’s really rooted in our location, even though I have employees that do not live in the state or the city. And a lot of it, I think, is for me, it’s about building an ecosystem, and looking at an economy as an ecosystem. And as that as a way to build interdependency amongst businesses that I think could be really healthy. And this is often I say, something that’s overlooked in sort of the the economic system of online businesses that sort of a resume in the last 10 years, maybe, or so is, I see, sometimes people forget that they can work with people around them.
Which I understand because you’re like in your office in your house. You’re like, Oh, I don’t have to leave how wonderful. And then sometimes, people forget that that might be actually the easiest path to both create business and growth and also connect with people. So that’s one answer. We also we do a lot of cooperative development work in some partnerships with other cooks in the city of Philadelphia. And that really is super grounded in creating local economies of cooperation. So one of the principles of collapse is that there is sort of an open source ethos of sharing knowledge and working with other co ops and like, really leaning into interdependence as a model. So that’s, that’s another piece of the work we do, really recognising like brick and mortar and people’s neighbourhoods, as economy some, you know, membership and when folks like in cooperatives own or other worker owners in which the folks producing whatever is sold own the business or their member co Ops, like food co Ops, where the local users of that business owners, and so that’s a really like, like an example of something that is generally hyper local, but they’re certainly larger co ops now.
Wow, that’s cool. Thank you.
But I think I’m curious because I live in a big city. And so in some ways, like one of the conversations I have is like, building a business based on mostly local clients can be very robust. When you live in a large city, and I know you live in a small
it’s something that you’ve been looking at. I asked you
and that’s really interesting for me at the moment because I have lived in so many different places and starting my business. So I am in my fifth year now and I have spent most of my 20s in Brighton, which isn’t a huge city. I think it has like half a million inhabitants. But there’s a big ecommerce and web design scene if you will. But when I was living in Brighton, I really never connected with people, I never did much networking. I think in those years, I did like one local website, and over a year, so just really mind blowing in a way, you know, but I think there were many reasons for that. The one of the first ones was probably that when I started my business, I already hadn’t been really feeling super committed to Brighton anymore, I knew I wasn’t going to be there forever. And I didn’t have, you know, very specific plans, but was pretty open. So I just kind of didn’t really ground myself very much locally. And, and I think that is partly because Brighton is so expensive. It’s very close to London. So it’s comparable to anything that’s commuting distance to New York, or Manhattan, for example. And I lived in a tiny house, which was cool in the beginning, but then it’s just like one of those life experiences anyway. And then it also happens to be that most of my audience, both for the podcast and on social media, when I was still on social media, and for my newsletter is it’s kind of spread across what we now call Northern America. And I think that’s because I did a business training in the very beginning, that was mainly folks from over the ocean. And they, you know, like my first clients came out of that group, and then they started recommending me, which is super sweet. But it’s, it’s really interesting how quickly that can snowball, how you can become known and add clothes or ground your business locally in areas that are so far from you, just because that’s your first few clients, and then they recommend, and that there was, there was no intention in that in the beginning, I was just glad to have any kind of work, you know. And I like those people. And it was really cool, because they recommend me to similar folks. And I was like, this is amazing, just gonna keep it going. But it also meant that I actually now know very few people in the UK, who do similar work or have similar ideas in business. And I’ve now in a summer moved to Scotland to a village and feel really committed here, I have a lot of love and romantic energy for this part of Scotland. And I’m just really everyday waking up feeling super glad that I get to live here. And it is a super small village. But we have an ecology centre that has a really cool community of small business owners, and I’m just kind of slowly getting to know people with a lot of gentleness, you know, I think I don’t want to kind of in inter inject myself as like a business person, I think I want to make connections as a human first. So it’s really like a super slow, really sweet process. But I love the kinds of businesses people have here and really excited to learn more. And I also want to teach more locally. So I have an online programme, which I really love. And I feel interesting me that even though that programme in that community isn’t local, it does feel very intimate, because it’s such a nice group of people that raise some ideas and very similar point in my business. So and then we have a lot of life, you know, mediums and zoom. So there is a sense of intimacy. And, and I want to have that geographic local as well. I’m excited. Yeah,
I thought you brought up such a good point that reminded me of, like, I think one of the things I knew about building locally is that it really is about connection and the relationship first, and not like making a hard sell, showing up with your pamphlet and your folders and stuff. But um, you know, and I think that’s what been one of the keys to how wonderful is developed and being really grounded here is that, you know, I’m interested in the relationships for the sake of the relationships and the connection and just like being engaged with cool people supporting their work, whether they’re paying us or not, and kind of be a part of that. And I think that’s been genuinely important, just as myself and for my own personal fulfilment, but also, there’s a benefit of like, you know, that’s how a local economy gets created. Because there’s a there’s care I think embedded in those relationships.
Yeah. So stepping back a little bit and kind of like zooming out again, I would love to hear what your relationship to social media is like at the moment and how it’s been maybe it’s changing over the years if it has
I’m the first word that came to mind was fraught. But you know, I think I can honestly say it’s not something I’ve ever really invested a lot of time in as a business owner, we have never had very developed social media presence. It’s definitely one of those like shoulds that hangs out back in my brain somewhat frequently, but you know, and this relates back to building through an ecosystem of relationships, and also the kind of business that we do, which is at this point and has been, you know, largely one on one, and service based, and so I have not needed to build an audience. And so, we have a very robust word of mouth network, and most of our business comes from referrals, and like direct relationships and things like that. So in terms of like, a marketing tool, it’s not something that I’ve ever invested in. I think part of that’s my personality is because I tend, I am an introvert. People person, for sure. And my strength is in building relationships and intimacy. So I think in some ways, like, Facebook doesn’t make sense. I’m like, I don’t really understand. Yeah, um, so we have an Instagram accounts. Do I post on it off it? Or strategically? Nope. Um, and that’s been okay. So far, it’s not something that’s actually harm the dismissing all, most of what I do that works is actually our newsletter. And, again, this is totally because of who I am. It’s, it’s posted on an idiot, you know, I read on an idiosyncratic schedule. Like it, there’s not a weekly rhythm, there never has been. But I have a tonne of engagement there. And people stop down the street and like, you know, talk to me about what they’ve read and stuff like that means a lot. And I think that’s the kind of engagement that I’m personally interested in. That said, I am working on a book project and like, on the horizon, 2020 is going to have to be audience building in a broader sense, which, frankly, scares me it’s one of those things where I’m like, I don’t know how to do that. They think it’s one of those like business moments that we all have, where it’s like, Well, shit, I guess I’m gonna have to figure that one out. And figure out a way to do it that’s fits how I want to be engaged. Like, don’t think I’m going to download an online course. And like, follow that.
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s interesting. Yeah, having kind of opted out of all of that for your entire career of the business of.
Yeah, thank you for sharing that. I’m really excited to share that with my audience. Because I think it’s really important for people to hear that that isn’t just one way of marketing or building a network or finding your first clients. I think there’s so many ways of doing this. And it’s really important that we find a way that’s kind of aligned with who we are and what we believe in, and what feels good to us on a day to day basis. And yeah, I love that you’re prioritising mode of mouth and your newsletter, I think word of mouth is often really overlooked. And sometimes it’s really as simple as reminding people at the end of a project saying like, hey, actually, no, like, what was that like for you? I’m really open to your feedback. And if, if you know anyone who might, you know, use our services, then that would be so meaningful, if you could let them know. And people are usually really open to that. But they do need to be reminded, because it’s not always common sense. I think that’s really cool. And I also love that you are spending energy on your newsletter, I think that’s a more intimate way of connecting. And I always think if someone signs up for a newsletter, it’s it’s really such a big invitation to be allowed into someone’s inbox. And I want to honour that. And I think that in the times where I’ve prioritised social media more, we’re looking back through my mail ad account. Now, I’m not always that proud of my newsletters, because there were, you know, one of many things that week, and I was really just having my hands in so many different pods. And that was just the way it was at the time. But I do feel like since I’ve left social media, I hope I mean, I hope that my newsletters have become a little bit more exciting to read and a little bit more honest. And I’m a bit more present with the writing and the sharing and I think that’s a really valid choice to make. So
I would say I think the the referral thing, there’s two things that that will be Three things that we do that I think work really well. One is it’s actually in our contracts. Like there’s a mutual expectations section and the contracts that book side. And there’s a piece of it that says something along the lines of like, we will shower you with gratitude for any referrals you send our way, during the course or after work together. Yeah. And then when we do follow up, like, sort of feedback form testimonial type thing. There’s a there’s a question that we asked, but who would you recommend our services to and why? And I think that really helps because it makes people think about it. And it just triggers like that sort of Oh, right. And then the third thing is to build relationships as co practitioners. So you know, part of our businesses, bookkeeping, there’s a bunch of accountants that that are similarly aligned. And I know, I respect their work. Because everybody’s always trying to find a good accountant to put here, and they, you know, they’ll send us clients all the time.
Yeah, that’s so cool. Awesome. This is a really big question. So you can take this any way you like? And I really don’t expect a perfect answer. But I wonder in a perfect world, like, what would you like to see and how we trade with each other?
Mm hmm. That is a big question. You know, I think in a perfect world, I would like to see, and this is something I try and experiment with myself, of just having a lot of options for how to make it work. You know, I think one of the things that I’m always thinking about and is that doing the right thing is really expensive.
Like, it’s pretty, there’s a really clear path for being like a shitty employer, and having poor labour practices, and using like, really cheap, shitty quality materials, and all that stuff. And like that will, that will create a more robust bottom line? I’m paying people well, it’s expensive. You know, in the US, our healthcare system is completely batshit broken. And it’s not feasible really, for small employers to really to be the ones that are supporting their teams health care, it just, it’s really hard to do. And so you know, I think having space to experiment is one of the important things to me, like I do barter when the circumstances are right as a way to open up work to folks that can’t afford it, or it doesn’t make sense to be investing in support at the moment. But I recognise, I only can do that, because, you know, it’s balanced by something else, like we do have to bring in revenue. And so I think that’s like, you know, that is not my wildest dream, maybe if I really sat here and thought about it, but like, as one answer is to be able to open up the space of what’s possible in terms of how we exchange. But recognise that, like, you know, and I think this is something that I really strongly believe is that, like, we do have to have profit in our businesses, we do have to be able to pay ourselves well, like, you know, as much as we can and like work on those things like we can we have to have a basis of financial viability that put a wonky term on it, but and but but what that does is opens up space for more experimentation, like sliding scale and barter and like, I think some other means of how we can be an exchange together. Good needs that I mean, it’s really like
a root of it. Pretty basic stuff. Yeah. I think that was a great answer. Thank you so much. I would love to hear a little bit more. And that could be like an impractical or an emotional or a visionary level. Like what kind of services are you offering to small businesses.
Yeah, so our two core offerings are strategic consulting. So I do one on one engagements with folks that are looking at things like the money, how does the money flow through the business growth? How to build out a team hire, how to not lose your mind as a business owner, and a lot of the like, so we work on the strategic and foundational elements of a business. So how does the design in the structure support the vision? And what are the components of that? How do they fit together. And then we also offer bookkeeping on an ongoing basis. So and often integrate the two. So, you know, getting a p&l every month is one half of financial stewardship, and then knowing what to deal with it as the other. So we help folks with both. And, you know, it’s hard to find good bookkeepers in the world, unfortunately. So I think it is a really important aspect of, you know, unnecessary to running a business in this day and age. So there’s a few core things. And then I’ve been getting into this work as I’m able, and it’ll be a bigger piece of what we’re doing and next year, but we do teach as well, from time to time and have did the first iteration of a business finance for anti capitalists workshop this year, which was super fun. I did it with the in the cooperative community here. But next year, I’m going to be revisiting that curriculum and doing more iterations of it and doing it online. So it’s accessible to more folks. So that I’m excited about really just getting the like, the foundational information we were talking about, at the beginning around the money piece. But from a place that offers a capitalist critique, and it’s privilege aware and class aware, and all those things, which I think are really important to do both
Yes, totally. One of my last questions is, What do you wish more people knew when they’re flooding out?
I think I think that there’s you know, that it’s all it’s all an experiment. I think that’s one of the most important things to just keep holding, you know, throughout the process, even when you are further along, is the change and failure. And I think put it putting things to bed and having grieving processes of the stuff that’s no longer serving you that all of those things are really important. Because it’s an active learning process. Like, I didn’t even I was back like a year ago. And there’s stuff that like I think I knew, perhaps intellectually. And that’s one of the things I think particularly happens when you’re when you’re a person that works on other people’s businesses all the time. Like, I have a lot of expertise and knowledge about a lot of things about what works and what doesn’t. And wanderwell is also an active, active incubator of all of those ideas and practices. And I also get it wrong all the time. Like, there’s things that I understand intellectually, and then at some point I will stumble upon and be like, Oh, right. If I were consulting for myself, I would have figured this out three years ago. And I think that’s like, part of it.
Yeah, totally. I love what you said about putting things to bed and like good grief practices, because I think, like some experience of challenge or failure is so inevitable. And if we really kind of honour that process, and are really intentional with its ending, then that is making it so much easier for us to move forward and not do it again. Yeah,
yeah, maybe do it again. stuff that I like, Oh, shit, yeah, that thing again. Okay.
Yeah, totally. I hear you and that, that anything else that you would like to share, and please tell us where people can find you? Yeah.
So our websites wanderwell consulting.com. Probably the best way to stay in touch is not on social media. I probably shouldn’t say that, actually. Since I should probably post there. Next year, but but there’s a newsletter sign up. And that’s generally where I put most of my energy. And where things like anti capitalist isms finance work will get gets worked out and workshops will be posted first and stuff like that. Yeah, so that’s where to find this. And I tend to try to be generous with my time. So I’m always happy to talk to folks about these ideas or their businesses and see where it goes from there.
Yeah, thank you so much. I’m really really excited for your book as well. That won’t be out in this episode is coming out. But maybe, but I saw like,
I was gonna say, I am just very excited. Whenever you’re ready. I’m ready to read it. And maybe you want to come again and talk about it when it’s out. I would love to help you promote it.
Yeah, thank you. I have I have residencies plan for next year. There are containers for this
happening. Thank you so much for your time and energy and for your beautiful landscape. I’m very excited to share this. Thanks. Thank you.